First - I promise a tip to the researcher if I felt the answer was
good, and I become excused from this mess.
Dear Google Researchers,
Today I received word over instant message chat, that I had infringed
an existing .
I stumbled over a website with insurance information. This website had
generic text about dental, health, auto, life information etc. The
site is: insurancejacpot.com
I thought the information would be useful for others and I checked the
entire site for information or terms or anything of that
sort. I found nothing, and used the text.
The site that I had built had only been up for two weeks, and I
received an instant message from (assumingly) the owner.
------------------------------------------
AIM CHAT START
-------------------------------------------
AIM chat as follows: (***edited for privacy***)
Session Start (AIM - Me:Him): Sat Jan 24 12:19:46 2004
Him: Hello Are you there?
Me: g
Me: yeah new sn?
Him: who are you?
Him: I talked to my lawyer yesterday and he is drafting a letter. You
are infringing on my company's (Platinum Production Group) copywright.
Him: .com
Him: and all the subdomains are direct copys of my companys websites
Me: Yes, they were copied from a website. We were under the impression
that they ok to use.
Me: It has been up for a week, maybe a little more.
Him: Not only are they ok to use, we spend many hours working and
building those websites.
Me: I found them from another site without any information.
I assumed it was alright to use.
Him: Take ever single one of them off the web right now and we also
demand 500 USD in compensation because of this blaitent copywrite
infringement. If you do not agree then I will just have my lawyer deal
with this.
Him: You not only stole our websites, you are also in direct
compeition with our websites thus stealing money from us in the form
of Google Adsense>
Him: You have created a long list of angry people here.
Him:
***(I think this information was found via domain lookup)***
Him: this is you correct?
Me: I will take them off, but we don't have 500USD to send. Relax -
it's been up for a week. I'm cooperating and taking them down. There
was no information on the sites, thus I felt it was alright
to use.
Me: What is you're site where the information exists?
Him: There is no law that my company has to put copywrite information
on our website. It is just obvious that you should not steal the
information.
Him: when you go to a grocery store they dont have signs saying dont
steal our food, its just implied.
Me: Understandable but much of the web is open source.
Him: anyways I dont have time to deal with this. Remove it all right
now or I will give my lawyer the go-ahead.
Me: The site has been deleted as requested. I will not send 500USD to compensate.
Him: it still seems like it works for me
Him: (Link: )
Him: (Link: http://www.car-insurance..com/)http://www.car-insurance..com/
Me: Give it a minute or two to go through.
Him: all of it gone
Him: acne
Him: hgh
Him: all stolen
Him: Car Insurance Web Design HGH Loans Travel
Nexium Auto Insurance Health Insurance Life Insurance Dental Insurance
Travel Insurance Acne
Him: all taht
Me: It has been removed. Thank you for pointing it to my attention.
Session Close (Him): Sat Jan 24 12:35:17 2004
Session Start (AIM - Me:Him): Sat Jan 24 13:11:46 2004
Him: Please check your (Link: mailto:) email address for
further information on this matter.
*** Auto-response sent to Him: Hello, I am currently away from the
computer. You can leave a message, and I will respond as soon as I
return. Feel free to email me at will@lavashark.com also. Thank you
and have a great day.
(Link: )
Him: Have a nice day.
Session Close (Him): Sat Jan 24 14:37:16 2004
------------------------------------------
AIM END
-------------------------------------------
Notice the second part of the chat while my away message was up ?
?Please check your email address for further information on this
matter.?
-----------------------------------------
EMAIL START ? SENT 1:10 PM EST
------------------------------------------
Subject: Infringement on
"http://www.car-insurance./,
http://www.hghstudy./,
http://www.loanfactz./,
http://www.hqtravel./,
http://nexiumresearch./,
http://www.auto-insurance./,
http://www.life-insurance./,
http://www.dental-insurance./,
http://www.travel-insurance./,
http://www.acnepain./"
January 24, 2004
MD
USA
Dear Mr. ,
It has come to our attention that you have illegally copied text used to
sell advertising space on . infringement is a
serious crime in the United States of America. We request that compensation
be paid in the sum of $500.00 USD. For each day after January 24, 2004 an
additional $50.00 USD shall be added to this compensation until all
material is removed from your location. In addition we request
that all revenue earned by these sites be paid to us in full amount. If you
do not cooperate we may notify your ISP, and include them in any legal
action we take setting out the circumstances. For more details of the terms
and conditions used with our site please view the following link:
http://www.insurancejackpot.com/terms.html
http://www.platinumpg.com/terms.html
(NOTE: NO LINK CAN BE FOUND FROM INSURANCEJACPOT GOING TO THESE TERMS.)
I quote from our terms:
"... you may NOT modify any of the materials found on the Site; use them for
any public display, performance,
sale or rental; remove, modify or alter any or other proprietary
notice, or trademarks there from; or transfer any material located on the
Site to any other person"
To avoid legal action please respond ASAP so we can setup how you will pay
compensation. The amount you owe from our product will be paid in full
amount to Platinum Production Group.
Demand is hereby made that you immediately cease and desist from all
activities or uses related to the publishing, distribution or dissemination
of.
I have prepared instructions to my attorney Tim Koogan to take whatever
action is necessary to protect my rights under law. Please be advised that
it is my intention to recover any fees in relation to this action from you.
This letter does not constitute a complete nor exhaustive statement of
Platinum Production Group's rights, claims, contentions or legal theories. Nothing
contained herein is intended as, nor should it be deemed to constitute, a
waiver or relinquishment of any our rights or remedies, whether legal or
equitable, all of which are hereby expressly reserved.
Very truly yours,
Brian L Annas
Adam M Whitman
from Platinum Production Group
http://www.insurancejackpot.com/
http://car-insurance.insurancejackpot.com/
http://www.hghstudy.com/
http://www.loanfactz.com/
http://www.hqtravel.com/
http://www.nexiumresearch.com/
http://auto-insurance.insurancejackpot.com/
http://life-insurance.insurancejackpot.com/
http://dental-insurance.insurancejackpot.com/
http://travel-insurance.insurancejackpot.com/
http://www.acnepain.com/
legal@platinumpg.com
Domain name: Registrant:
Administrative Contact:
Technical Contact:
Billing Contact:
Record last updated on 2004-01-02 00:00:00
Record created on 2002-08-20 00:00:00
Record expires on 2004-08-20 00:00:00
Domain servers in listed order:
Registration Service Provider:
Registrar:
January 24, 2004 @ 08:45:17 PST
Copy Infringement found and logged from:
http://www.car-insurance./,
http://www.hghstudy./,
http://www.loanfactz./,
http://www.hqtravel./,
http://nexiumresearch./,
http://www.auto-insurance./,
http://www.life-insurance./,
http://www.dental-insurance./,
http://www.travel-insurance./,
http://www.acnepain./
---------------------------------------
EMAIL END
---------------------------------------
I do not feel I violated any laws as none were stated on the
site. The site I built had recieved less than 15 hits. Visiting it on
a daily basis, myself.
Is there a way I can check if a REALLY exists for this
information? I know that often site?s add the terms to the bottom of
their sites (which this one didn?t), but has no official .
IMPORTANT: Much of the same exact text on INSURANCEJACKPOT.COM can be
found at: http://www.1st-in-insurance-quotes.com - What does this
mean?
I also found no information on a Tim Koogan on the internet. Could
this be a fictional lawyer? What does this mean?
Finally . . . I am a minor. I am 17. Please let me being a minor
factor in you?re legal advice, but don?t let it deter you from the
seriousness of this question.
Researchers, ? Please read my post in it?s entirety before posting a
response. Please don?t just skim through and post a response. Thank
you.
My suggestion would be to take down the content you gleaned from their
site, but not to contact them or to reply to their messages. It's a
private civil matter, so they don't have to warn you that anything you
say in your communication with them can be used against them - but it
can. They're threatening legal action - the less said, the better.
exists from the moment that a work has been created. The
author does not have to do anything to establish after the
creation of the work. The creator does not have to post a notice or
warning. The work is automatically ed by law.
You might be able to negotiate an equitable settlement with the
owner. An apology would probably be a good first step to a
settlement.
Basics
http://www..gov/circs/circ1.html
" WHO CAN CLAIM
" protection subsists from the time the work is created in
fixed form. The in the work of authorship */immediately/*
becomes the property of the author who created the work. Only the
author or those deriving their rights through the author can
rightfully claim ."
Just for the purpose of information, you probably should have asked
permission to post the e-mail, also. Private mail or e-mail is
ed matter, too.
hlabadie-ga
Hlabadie is correct. There needn't be any notice of on the
website. Writing is automatically ed the day it is put on
paper (or on a computer). However, having a filing with the U.S.
Office does improve someone's case when it comes to
violations.
In the future, you should *never* use anyone else's writing without
written permission in advance. (The exception is fair use; you can
learn about fair use here, at the U.S. Office website:
http://www..gov/fls/fl102.html
It's common for "threat letters," such as you've received, to be sent
in such cases, although they are typically a bit more professional. I
am not a lawyer, but I am familiar with laws, fair use, and
such. My advice is to simply write a letter to the owner of the
website (preferably by snail mail, if you can find the address...send
it certified, so you have proof of delivery). Apologize and express
briefly your ignorance--and your age. It's highly unlikely they will
bother to get an attorney involved, since it would cost them a
considerable sum. Be polite, and if you have any other "borrowed"
material online or elsewhere, remove it right away.
Kriswrite
Hello willstein,
If I were in your position, I would immediately remove all the
content, email them to apologize and then ignore all communication
until you receive a legal notice in the mail. Be sure to keep logs
that prove you received only x number of hits, so you can show that
you did not actually take any business away from them. In my opinion
the chances of you actually being sued are small, and even if you are,
there is a good chance you would only have to pay a small amount if
you took down the content fast, and they would need to show that they
suffered as a result of it. I have a feeling you are just being
bullied... Although I am NOT a lawyer.
I mis-typed. s need to be registered through the U.S.
Office at the Library of Congress. Not at the agency I
mentioned above.
1) I think you've learned from this not to copy the content of
someone else's web pages because it is automatically ed the
instant it is created. Always bear in mind that web content is NOT
'open source' any more than the latest John Grisham thriller is 'open
source' just because you can read all the words in the book and make a
photocopy. Unless someone specifically says you may copy something,
you can't. And even then they may put restrictions on it, e.g. you
can only copy for non-commercial purpses. (And that was a good point
raised about the emails.)
In future, a wise rule of thumb is to ask if you can use someone
else's text before doing so.
2) As others have recommended, keep a record of your log files and
all correspondence with this guy. (And keep the site down...at least
if it has any of their information on it.) By the way, you should
also take screen shots of your ftp files with dates and of the current
site to prove the site is down. It sounded from his IMs like he was
still seeing it...which means he hadn't cleared his cache. You would
need something to document his error if necessary. Also...definitely
keep a record of your Google AdWords account to document no traffic
other than yours and no sales. This is particularly important, as it
appears that many of their websites are created solely to earn money
from AdWords and to improve Google PR by linking to one another as
"sponsored links".
3) Do not send him any money. Do not send him any more emails. Do
not respond to IMs. Do not respond to any more threats from him. You
have taken down the site and apologized. Don't do any more in
response to anything from him.
This guy is hoping to scare you into sending him $$$. From his
various websites, it looks like he's a real hustler. That doesn't
mean you owe him anything.
Frankly I find it suspicious that they have not only hidden their
whois information (nothing wrong with that per se) and provided no
contact information whatsoever on any of their websites other than
email...and not even that on most of them, but that they want you to
contact them "so we can setup how you will pay compensation" which, to
me, implies that they will want you to pay online. I wouldn't send
anyone with this lack of contact information a penny for anything. I
wouldn't trust them.
It is highly unlikely you will receive a letter from his attorney. It
is even more unlikely you will be sued. *IF* you should get a letter
from his attorney, it would be best that you talk to an attorney
yourself and any correspondence be between them. You probably have a
friend whose mom or dad is an attorney, or maybe a neighbor or someone
in your church, who would give you free or very inexpensive legal
advice since you are a kid. Even an area law school is a possibility.
And *IF* you get a letter from his attorney, and you have kept all the
records everyone has recommended, your attorney will then be able to
show that you immediately removed the site, that you can provide your
log files and provide evidence that your site earned no money and drew
no traffic, and that you offer innocent infringement as a defense
since no notice was displayed and, as documented in earlier
correspondence, you truly believed it was OK to use their text.
4) Just because you don't find a Tim Koogan on the web doesn't mean
anything. Many lawyers do not have websites. They find they don't
need them. Unless you knew what state he was supposed to be
practicing in so you could check to see if he is actually licensed to
practice there, failure to find him on the web is irrelevant.
5) I couldn't find anything I'd called "Much of the same exact text"
between http://insurancejackpot.com/ and
http://www.1st-in-insurance-quotes.com...perhaps the guy harassing you
got caught stealing their text ;-)
6) Don't stress over this. You're not going to get an attorney on
the list give you binding legal advice. But you also aren't going to
accomplish anything by worrying.
Good luck!
The creator of a work doesn't need to state any sort of official
"" notice in order to have all the legal rights to a project,
literary work, web site, or otherwise.
The creator of a work does have to have the work registered with the
U.S. Patent and Trademark office in order to file a lawsuit regarding
infringement. Have you checked to see whether what this
person has written has been registered with the USP&T?
darrel-ga
is registered at the Office, not the US Patent and
Trademark Office.
"To register a work, send the following three elements in the same
envelope or package to:
Library of Congress
Office
101 Independence Avenue, S.E.
Washington, D.C. 20559-6000"
"Innocent infringement" can be offered as a defense if no
notice is displayed.
"Use of the notice may be important because it informs the public that
the work is protected by , identifies the owner,
and shows the year of first publication. Furthermore, in the event
that a work is infringed, if a proper notice of appears on
the published copy or copies to which a defendant in a
infringement suit had access, then no weight shall be given to such a
defendant's interposition of a defense based on innocent infringement
in mitigation of actual or statutory damages, except as provided in
section 504(c)(2)
of the law. Innocent infringement occurs when the infringer
did not realize that the work was protected."
If the work was not registered prior to the infringement, then
attorney's fees cannot be awarded, only actual losses.
hlabadie-ga
Call the office and get specific details on how you can
the material in your web site. Also, if you use material
from other businesses and/or web sites, even though they have not
disabled their copying tools, please be sure to provide a link back to
the site you are copying from, it is only common courtesy. On the last
page of the site in the contacts area properly credit any other
company for the use of their work. This is good business ethics. It is
important in business not to offend other business members and to
remember that we all need to work together in order to create a
community.
Expertlaw-ga is exactly right! I know this from experience. Live and learn.
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